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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 5:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I don't see how Butch's assessment of the Grateful Dead could be any more accurate. He is 100% correct about every single point he made.

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Poster: roughyed Date: Jun 5, 2011 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I doubt Branford Marsalis or David Murray would agree.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 1:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I think Jerry himself would have agreed...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 6, 2011 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

You think Jerry would have agreed with that? I don't. I think Jerry would be in denial that the whole reason he was bored and the band was " going nowhere" was mostly HIS fault

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 6, 2011 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I have to disagree. I think Jer was very cognisant of that and just didnt give a shit...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 6, 2011 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

perhaps but Jerry wasn't always quite as modest as it is made out I don't think.

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Jun 5, 2011 3:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Cliff, I usually think your pretty funny in your latter era bashing, although i like the 80's (just dont prefer it) but i dont see how you could agree with 100% of Trucks' comments and consider yourself a fan of the Grateful Dead. I mean you think they rarely found a groove but yet devote a lot(im guessing) of your time to listening to their music? that doesnt seem to make sense to me. just wondering about that.

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Jun 5, 2011 4:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I think your initial post in this thread has been a really good springboard for discussion, but it seems silly to question Cliff's love for the band! His deep and sympathetic skills as a listener and commentator seem unquestionable and I guess you know that... I think it is pretty easy to understand why someone might not like post 75 Grateful Dead much but still be absolutely devoted to the band - and I am a listener who listens to every year, and can usually find something to enjoy, even if I don't think it makes a fair comparison with a good 1970 show.
Cliff's year by year show ratings and many other posts are really a great contribution to the community. I think it's great to discuss and argue the virtues and flaws of different eras, but Cliff has explained his tastes with good justifications. I don't think he was really meaning to say that Weir shoulda been kicked outta the band by saying he thought Trucks was right in focusing on Billy, Phil, and Jerry.

Not that I have any special right to tell anyone else what to post or that Cliff needs me to talk about what a great poster he is. Peace.

This post was modified by bkidwell on 2011-06-05 23:44:23

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Jun 5, 2011 7:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

"Cliff's year by year show ratings and many other posts are really a great contribution to the community." - exactly, which is why it was so perplexing to me to see him agree with Butch 100%. my question wasnt pertaining to which era's he loved how that would make him less of a head but as to how he could agree that they rarely found a groove if its the band he loves.

and i never mentioned anything about weir when questioning Cliff.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Thank you!

I've posted plenty of praise for Weir's guitar work here and in my show reviews over the years. He has a unique style of playing, and he has contributed to many highly compelling passages that I enjoy and have referenced. But as much as his skills have progressed, his musicianship falls short of the "core three" and I think even Weir would admit it.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

The fact that I hate 80's Grateful Dead makes me less of a Deadhead?

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Jun 5, 2011 6:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

No no, thats not what i was saying. I'm just asking how you can agree with Butch in that they would very rarely find a groove or that it was few and far between?

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 5, 2011 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I'm not sure I agree 100% , but I think his opinion, might have more truth to it than we would like to admit . From musician's point of view, coming outside the band , it makes sense . Bob Weir ( as guitar player ) is a subtle, and totally original musician . Not everyone is going to appreciate him right off .

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jun 5, 2011 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I 100% disagree with this: "Once and a while they would really lock in and find a groove. It was very few and far between but they would do it."

Do you really think that they only locked in and found a groove from time to time?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 6, 2011 4:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I guess it all depends on your definition of "locking in"

By my definition, and obviously that of Trucks, the Grateful Dead rarely locked in. Their playing style did not lend itself to "locking in" like that of the Allmans.

As LIA has pointed out, "the Allmans didn't jam like the Dead did; the Allmans had fewer styles & were more focused on a strict blues/country groove, preferring tight, rehearsed solos to on-the-edge group improv."

Is that difficult for you to understand?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jun 6, 2011 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

No, Cliff, not so hard to understand, even for my feeble mind. But it does seem silly to quibble about the definition of something as amorphous as "locking in." To me, the idea that the Dead were rarely locked in -- especially during certain periods -- is laughable. Perhaps Trucks uses that term differently that most people; perhaps he doesn't really "get" the Dead. But to me, the Dead absolutely epitomize the term.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 6, 2011 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Interesting. I find the music of the Grateful Dead to be the antithesis of "locked in" and that's why I enjoy it so much more than that of the Allmans!

I'd love to see some exammples of what you consider the Grateful Dead "locking in" like the Allmans...

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jun 6, 2011 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

We're obviously talking about different things. I certainly don't define "locked in" as "sounding like the Allman Brothers." We're talking about apples and oranges here, and trying to apply a specific definition to a term that is open to interpretation.

To me, when the Dead were playing well, they were locked in -- listening, anticipating, moving together and complementing each other perfectly through complex jams. In my interpretation of it, it's perfectly feasible to be "locked in" even during an open-ended jam.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 6, 2011 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I thought so. Trucks was right. The Grateful Dead really didn't "lock in" all that much. Which was a good thing in my opinion...

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jun 6, 2011 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Perhaps you're talking about that "signature" Allman Brothers sound where Dicky and Duane would play the same riff simultaneously and note-for-note. If that's your definition of "locked in" then I agree completely.

When I say that the Dead are "locked in," I simply mean that they're playing together, anticipating each other's moves, and turning on a dime when it counts. Very different.

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Poster: splue Date: Jun 5, 2011 8:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

great point!!